It appears FBI thugs have stolen yet more property:
I sincerely regret to inform you that about 8:00 this morning a dozen FBI and Secret Service agents raided the Liberty Dollar office in Evansville.
For approximately six hours they took all the gold, all the silver, all the platinum and almost two tons of Ron Paul Dollars that where just delivered last Friday. They also took all the files, all the computers and froze our bank accounts.
We have no money. We have no products. We have no records to even know what was ordered or what you are owed. We have nothing but the will to push forward and overcome this massive assault on our liberty and our right to have real money as defined by the US Constitution. We should not to be defrauded by the fake government money.
But to make matters worse, all the gold and silver that backs up the paper certificates and digital currency held in the vault at Sunshine Mint has also been confiscated. Even the dies for mint the Gold and Silver Libertys have been taken.
This in spite of the fact that Edmond C. Moy, the Director of the Mint, acknowledged in a letter to a US Senator that the paper certificates did not violate Section 486 and were not illegal. But the FBI and Services took all the paper currency too.
Strange that this comes at a time when Ron Paul is educating the public about the Federal Reserve scam. Even more peculiar is the fact that Ron Paul embarrassed Bernanke on national television a few days ago.
Look for information about Class Action Lawsuit. Coin collecters shouldn’t loose their money because the Fed has to get trigger happy
what the hell is wrong with this country?! if this doesn’t piss people off, it just shows how stupid we have become.
When I received this I was outraged!!!! Ron Paul is the only honest republican candidate out there. I just sent a letter to him and urge everyone else too, to show support for him.
The BIC bonding process as taught by Dr Sam Kennedy..
would stop this action cold…I know you are doubting this statement…go to republic broadcasting network
website archives radio shows TAKE NO PRISONERS host Dr Sam Kennedy…..start in april 2007…..listen and be blown away…
the bonding process will stop the alphabet gangs….FBI.IRS, JUDGES,,etc etc…If you havent heard this before…this is must listening……..because this is most likely just the beginning of NWO coming down harder on all freedom loving americans…
http://www.republicbroadcasting.org/get_archive.php?hn=Kennedy&yr=07
To any one who might know! What type of Doctor is Dr. Sam Kennedy? Does he have a Doctorate in Law or is he an OGBYN?
Can anyone show me any case, in any state, in any jurisdiction that someone has ever used Dr. Sam Kennedy program and has won in any courtroom?
Or is Dr. Sam Kennedy the same nonsense as John Gliha’s Due Process.
Anxiously waiting for any proof!
T.R.
Dr Sam Kennedy is a real doctor…medical..
you should not bash someone you dont know…
why dont you ask him…call into his radio show live at republicbroadcasting.org
all his shows are archived…Ive heard countless testimonials…
Take No Prisoners….sunday nights 9-11pm est
archives
http://216.240.133.177/Kennedy/07/
http://216.240.133.177/Kennedy/08/
also listen and watch
Winston Shrout (Solutions in Commerce)
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1038276782308887999
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=470978216057565378
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1819046046183789561
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3581361366388439461
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7747023869513799959
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4579143276364258595
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8621940432301681095
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4417106487526006308
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5908050427680975207
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6012507988534846061
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3538988802945019667
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=9131797588913913745
http://www.winstonshroutsolutionsincommerce.com/
Mr. Albert –
Is Kennedy a real doctor? In what state is he licensed. Do you have that information you will share with us. No BS, just provide the state. Interesting that he never provides that information, and never will.
As to his extensive knowledge of the law and his BIC process, as the previous post stated, in what court has this garbage worked. If he can not provide the cause number, county and state of case, plaintiff and defendant name, it does not exist. DOES NOT EXIST. Say “scam artist”.
His lastest sham explanation of why he can not provide such a cite is that it disappears from the “docket”. For you folks who do not know the difference, the docket is the schedule of the court’s future activities. Once the judgment has been entered against you, there is no further reason for the case to come upon the court docket.
Once a case has been filed, it is in the court and clerk’s records PERMANENTLY. It is not on the docket forever. Listen carefully to what he says. If you believe in the BIC process, use it and plan to take a five year expense paid vacation with the state you live in. Boarding and three meals a day included.
The heat now appears to be on him. His seminars are now at a secret site and there is secret registration.
However, think positive, while you are in prision you can sign up with Freedom Law School in California and use his fiction to keep you occupied. (Of course he can not get his own liens discharged but this is another fairy tale you can endulge yourself with)
And by the way, since you like fiction, you might at least find some audio or video at least entertaining.
Sounds like you’re willingly ignorant and trying to shamelessly dissuade others from the truth James. No matter. Whether or not you believe the research, the process is highly effectual and your ignorance is ok, but please don’t spew venom unless you know first hand your information.
First thing I asked was is he a real doctor and what state is he licensed in. Apparently you have nothing. Do you have an address for him. Of course not. What proof do you have Samuel Kennedy is even his real name. None.
You seek truth from someone who hides in shadows? He is a ghost. Why do you think his seminars are secret?
I suspect, do not know for sure, that Kennedy has been in prision. If I am correct, it would be very interesting to know what he was convicted of.
“willing ignorant”. I am a tax attorney with 30 years experience & licensed in two states, several federal districts, and the US Tax Court. What he advocates will get you thrown into jail. I see it all the time. He can produce NO court cases in which anything he advocates has been sucessful. Doesn’t that concern you in the least? Despite all his claims, not one time has he shown any evidence that any of his “research” works. If you know of any, POST IT NOW.
“Highly effectual” If you think it works, then I guess you believe Sherry Jackson, Larken Rose, Wesley Snipes, Eddie Kahn, Rosile, just to name a few, won a government lottery to an all inclusive resort. You do read the newspaper, don’t you.
“Highly effectual” If you think it works, then ask Tommy Crier, the La attorney who was found not guilty in a federal criminal trial. He calls Kennedy a Snake oil peddler and warns people that using Kennedy’s methods will land them in jail. Mr. Crier is right on point.
“Highly effectual” If you think it works, then use it and advertise it to the IRS like Rose did. (Rose at least had some “guts”.) If it works, accordingly to Kennedy the IRS and federal judges will run away. If so, you will be the “man”. Despite Kennedy’s claims that this has happened, he has failed to provide one single cause number and the court; it will NEVER happen, these are dilusions in his mind to fatten his bank account.
“Highly Effectual” If it works, why didn’t Snipes hire Kennedy as his defense counsel. Sorry, forget Kennedy is not an attorney. How about just hiring Kennedy as a consultant.
If you want to add credibility to Kennedy, I suggest you find, if you can, the following information about Kennedy and post it:
1. What medical school he attended.
2. What state he is/was licensed to practice medicine in.
3. Where he resides.
4. One court case which supports any of his theories (research as you call it)
5. One case when the IRS Agent/Officer agreed with any of his theories
6. What state he is licensed to practice law in (sorry, he thinks he knows the law).
Now, since you believe you are a searcher of the truth, why not find the truth about Kennedy. And guess what, your next post, if you dare, will not provide one verifable answer to any of the above 6 questions.
And now to those people I am trying to dissuade and keep out of jail – If Mr. Fred can not produce one cite in regard to #4 which can be verified, move on with life and stay out of jail. Mr. Fred will be the messinger, let’s see what he brings us.
Sorry, forgot. Mr. Albert, you chime right in too and help Mr. Fred. Two heads are better then one.
It has now been 4 days and no update from Mr. Albert or Mr. Fred. I am sure they are doing their “research”. Lets give them a few more days.
It is now July 3, 2008, nearly another week has passed for Mr. Albert and Mr. Fred to complete their research. Forget the tax stuff. Its rather sad when they can not even provide evidence Kennedy is a doctor and what state he is licensed in.
Then again, maybe the reason they can not answer is that they relied upon Kennedy’s BIC process and they are being processed into federal prision. They are looking forward to you taking Kennedy’s advice so they will have some company. .
Another week has passed and no “hot air” from Mr. Albert and Mr. Fred. No info on Sam Kennedy, a/k/a the “Ghost”. No surprise.
How about this? Has the “Ghost” every used any of his BS, sorry, his research even for himself. Guess what? No record of that either.
Sam is in trouble. He is now insulating himself for the idiots who are using the BIC process by only instructing this trash to “mentors”, who then are the sheep who the IRS, Justice Department, Unauthorized Practice of Law Committees go after when some “dreamer” uses the BIC. Why, he does not want any civil liability from those who are foolish enought to use this trash.
No doubt the ghost talks a good story. Someone told me twenty years ago he sold used cars, but with a ghost, we can not verify that either. I also have heard, as I am sure some of you also have, that the IRS contracts Kennedy to put this trash out so that it is much easier to track the non-filers, who are the primary people using this trash.
Listen to what the Ghost is saying. If you get a letter from the IRS threatening penalties and you are scared or concerned (like any person with any sense), this process is NOT for you. Listen carefully. If you have any sense in your head and have second thoughts (i.e. – you are not completely stupid) about telling a judge he is under arrest or by “what authority do you, the judge, come before me”, YOU SHOULD NOT USE IT. While I can not believe anyone would tell a judge that, I guess some people do. Charles Manson did, so that is the menalty of the BIC users.
The truth of the matter is Kennedy is a snake oil salesman who is seeking a “silver bullet”, does not have it, has no clue how to get there, but is willing to experiment finding one so long as YOU ARE THE ONE WITH LIABILITY AND CRIMINAL EXPOSURE. He says he never will tell you what to do, but spends two hours doing just that. And every three months, he changes the process to a bigger, better one that works. What about the poor slob who used this trash two years ago? If it works so well, and there is no proof it has even worked once, why change it?
Moral story. Kennedy does not like the IRS, the legal system, or attorneys. A lot of people share the same feelings, and that does not make him a bad guy, and maybe somewhat normal in that aspect. However, Kennedy’s advice will force you into the criminal system, at which time you will be required to hire an attorney, spend tons of money to retain your freedom, and you will be darn lucky to ever get your right to vote back after the felony conviction.
My final word, in the law there is a saying – “BUYER BEWARE”.
It appears Mr. Albert and Mr. Fred were Mr. Kennedy posting under different user names to “hipe” himself. Enough said.
My wife has been part of the disillusioned few who have fallen prey to the Sam Kennedy scam. She has been kicked out of her home, lost custody of her kids, gone to jail and been convicted of a felony, lost her career as a pre-school teacher after months of filling frivilous documents provided by these perpetuators(in exchange for strings of fees ofcourse)and crazy enough she still follow these group of scam artist religiously.
There also one keith livingway with a cult-like group of followers working with this con-artist and their peers. the run an anti-government group called sovereigns without subjects siphoning their members of strings of cash for seminars and worth not as they all loss everything they ever worked for.
I am in the process of ensuring that all these group of home wrecking scam artist rightfully end up behind bars(where they usually lead most of their dumb followers into)
If anyone living in Texas or Oklahoma has paid for and attended a Sam Kennedy seminar, used the material he taught and distributed, it did not work and you were harmed or damaged (fines, went to jail, etc.), would like to sue Kennedy, and know where he lives, post here and I will have an attorney contract you to evaluate action against Mr. Kennedy.
There is a dentist, Dr. Miller in either Kansas or Nebraska, who used Kennedy’s BS before a federal magistrate, the magistrate stopped the hearing, found Dr. Miller in contempt, turned him over to the bureau of prisions. If anyone has any doubt, post here and I will track it down.
By the way Mr. Kennedy, I know of no attorney who is scared of you or your tactics. You are considered a JOKE and SCAM ARTIST preying on small minded people. No one who does what you do, and you know the results, could have a relationship with GOD.
Kennedy’s laughable theories are based upon using commercial process to access a secret bank account each person has with the Department of Treasury. For all you suckers who will attend one of his week long seminars, pay him with his commercial process instead of those nasty federal reserve notes. If it good for someone else, it should be good for him.
Yesterday I had an old friend present me with this 1099 oid scheme. He is convinced that at least seven people from his “community” of fourteen people have filed 1099 oid’s and received huge checks from the IRS. He mumbled and muttered about the fact that each American is a “corporation” and now under USC 26, we can file a 1099 oid, and get back our money bla bla bla. Despite the fact he blahtered for nearly an hour explaining how seven people from his “community” of fourteen had filed 1099 oid’s and received huge payments from the IRS, he did not know who they identified as the Payer on the 1099 oid form or who they identified as the recipient on the 1099 oid form the allegedly had filed with IRS. Suffice it to say he was acting like someone who just joined a religious cult.
From a cursory review of this topic through use of the Internet, (googling 1099 scam), it appears to me that my friends “community” is merely a local group of misguided followers of the teachings/ramblings of the mysterious Dr. Kennedy and/or other so-called “Paytriot”
Perhaps one of Dr. Kennedy’s more informed followers of Dr. Kennedy could answer my question regarding who they name as the Payer and Recipient when they use the 100 oid form as taught by Dr. Kennedy.
I look forward to your prompt and thoughtful replies.
Kevin
Do not hold your breath waiting for an answer, there will be none. Ask your friend for proof, which is PAPER verification, not words.
In most cases (like Elaine Brown, remember her) they list the Receipient as the person they own the money to and they (Brown) are the Payer. They believe the Treasury has a secret account from which the Treasury will take money out of the account and pay the Recipient. They do send a copy to the IRS, and in some cases they insert an amount for withheld taxes. It is a double scam, amount to discharge a debt to someone else (including IRS) and withheld taxes.
The real effect of the foregoing with a non-government creditor is to create problems (imputed income) to the creditor and hope the creditor will leave them alone.
Elinane Brown did the same with the U.S District Clerk of NH and to which the Clerk summarily rejected. The IRS is criminally prosecuting those cases (filing false documents under penalty of perjury). No doubt some may slip through for a short period of time, and prehaps that is the victory your friend speaks of. You will not hear that later down the road the IRS discovers the mistake and begins proceedings against the Payer.
By the way, Kennedy has led a lot of people into prision. Kennedy can not produce ONE verifiable case where this procedure has worked. It is always that “I got an email from a patriot who said he received a $900,000 refund ….”. It is such BS. Any refund in excess of $250,000 is specifically approved within the IRS before the refund is processed. It does not not happen. Well maybe for $25, but do you want to take such a chance for $25???
Removed per author’s request.
Jerry –
Someone told you. A friend told you. How many times have we heard this before.
Did you see the check? Did you see their bank statement which reflected the $400,000 deposit? Are your friends now driving Mercedes, etc, which they did not have before? Did they just pay cash for a new house? The answer to each of these questions is probably NO.
Ok, let’s assume it worked, and I will tell you what you described, but instead of using a 1099-OID I will use a W-2 form, for it will be easier to understand, and it works exactly the same.
The Employer will be a bank which you owe money to. (A bank is used since you have easy access to its federal identification number). The compensation will be a four hundred thousand dollar loan, but it could be any amount. The tax withheld will be $300,000, and you will be listed as the employee. Of course none of this is true and the preparation of this W-2 and filing with the W-2 with the IRS is criminal tax fraud. (The 1099 must be filed with a 1096 which you must sign as being correct under penalties of perjury).
Notwithstanding the felony you just committed, this is how the rest plays out. You prepare your personal income tax return reflecting $400,000 in salary, and $300,000 in income tax withheld. The tax on $400,000 is, for arguments sake, $50,000, and assuming no other income, your 1040 reflects a $250,000 refund. You file your personal return, and now you have committed the second felony.
The IRS will computer cross check the W-2 on your return with that filed by the employer (remember you also filed a W-2 to the IRS on behalf of the employer which was the first felony) so initially they match. However, within a year or so, the IRS computers will determine the employer’s W-2 reflect more income tax withheld than actually paid in (off by your $300,000 income tax), the IRS will contact the employer, and after a few months the employer will reconcile the difference to the W-2 you sent to the IRS. At that time the IRS will look for you and begin a criminal investigation, the Justice Department will file a criminal complaint, you will not have the $100,000 in attorney’s fees to defend yourself (you will lose), you will plead or be found guilty of one or two felonies, spend 2 to 5 years in jail, lose the right to vote, carry fire arms, and your ability to get a good job will be greatly imparied. Your wife will probably be gone and your parents will not be proud.
The scam on W-2 forms has been around for over 20 years, one of the most famous I believe was a manager of
a tax preparation firm who made up employee names, etc.
The new twist is that within the last few years con men, such as Sam Kenney, are selling this scam through the use of the 1099-OID. Remember you have committed “white collar crime”, you did not use a gun, but it is theft anyway. The last one I defended (two years ago) received 33 months in federal prision.
If you really want to know if it is legal, contact any CPA, tax attorney, professor that teaches tax, etc. If it is legal, get a copy of what they did and post it. If it is legal, why not share?
One suggestion, before you follow through with this, ask your friends who have not gone off the deep end about this, for they will be the ones in the jury panel who will determine your guilt You will find most people’s attitude is if if they have to pay their share, so should you.
I personally know 6 people in my area who filed these 1099 OID. All 6 received, in writing from IRS received fines of $5000 each for filing frivolous claims. they were lucky. the poster is correct. anyone who files these things is committing felonies. and these deals have been around, they just get recycled every few years by another sheister who prey on the desperate ,gullible and greedy . All you ever need do with these scammers is ask them to document or prove their claims. they never can. My advice to those people who supposedly got those checks of $400,000, get another passport and change your name to Hector Gonzalez ,r Weng Hou or Mary Boomboom
Many of these characters like Eddie Kahn or Eddie Con as I like to call him who promoted these things are now enjoying the hospitality of the federal prison system, Faced with over $500,000 secured and unsecured debt I spent 3 years and $100,000 filing all this nonsense. None of it works, The cons who sell these programs target the most desperate and most vulnerable, making them true lowlifes in my book
Removed per author’s request.
Jerry – why don’t you or one of your non-existent friends contact me; I would be most amused to listened to all the reasons why they can not provide verifiable written evidence substantiating refunds for over $400,000. This is going to be good.
ajlynn6367@sbcglobal.net
How did you know I made the whole thing up? You have to admit, it sure was entertaining. I had a good laugh anyway.
Jerry – you are a moron. You may had a good laugh but someone may have read your LIES, believed it, and passed it along to another. One of these people may act upon your statement, and have harm come to them as a result. They may be rather easy to mislead for in many cases they have a mountain of problems and are looking for a “silver bullet” to reduce their debt, obtain someone’s freedom, etc. They need something to believe in. There are a number of people, including Sam the Scam Kenney who prey upon these folks, talking their last $1,000 for a worthless seminar. All you did was reinforce in some of these people’s mind that maybe Sam the Scam Kennedy’s methods work. You had a good laugh at someone else’s expense. GOOD JOB!
Winston Shrout promotes afv and 1099 oid on his solutions in commerce website. If none of these things work, why isn’t the irs hauling them into court? I do not have any ties to anyone, just asking why?
Where have you been, it is. The IRS is assessing a $5,000 penalty for each such filing, and when you do not pay, the IRS goes after your property. It usually takes 12 to 24 months after you have filed the fraudulent 1099 for the issue to surface. Ed or Elaine Brown used the 1099-OID with the federal court as the receiptant. Go look up on Pacer for the court’s resonse. (New Hampshire Federal District Court).
By the way, there are a number of Sam the Scam Kennedy’s followers who have been burned and are in serious trouble. That is the major reason he no longer takes calls from the public on his radio show and why his bogus seminars are by invitation only after he has checked you out. Even when Sam the Scam Kennedy talkes about a case, he never tells where the cause number, the court, etc. If the person won, where is the harm of letting everyone know where it took place? (Truth – it didn’t happen)
Whether it is Sam the Scam Kennedy or Wiston Shrout, have you EVER seen any so called sucess verificable in WRITING where you can go to the court documents??? You never will.
By the way, following is a letter Elaine Brown wrote from her prision cell on 10/8/2008. This letter was posted on Quatloss.com and you will note Elaine’s comments that Sam Kennedy can not help even though she filed “the documents Sam promotes, …”
“Elaine-Alice: Brown
[03923-049] F.M.C. Carswell
PO Boxv 27137
FORT WORTH TEXAS, 76127
Oct 8, 2008
Dear Ray,
It was so good to hear from your again. It has been too long. Thank you for including Ed’s comments. He definitely is THE letter writer. He surprises. me also.
Sam’s (Kennedy) comments not being able to help us due to the time is distressing to say the least. He probably doesn’t know the following:
1. Around 1997 Ed and I filed with the county registry of deeds our Oath Purgatory and our Sovereignty Papers.
2. At the beginning of our trial when everyone had to introduce themselves to the jury, we did so as Sovereigns, spelling our names with upper and lower case.
3. I started back at the beginning of this year filing the documents Sam promotes,including rescission of signature, waiver of benefits, affidavits of non-corporate status.
4. All documents, letters, forms Sam talks about have been filed.
I cannot think that all our work these past several months was for naught. That would be too distressing. I don’t know if you are able to contact him again, or how you contacted him in the first place unless it was to call in to his show.
Ray, what Sheriff’s sale are you talking about? $20M? Surely not the so called traffic violation you had spoken of earlier. Can you write me more about it?
You are truly a courageous man of Yahweh and Yashua, to stand alone as you have done for so long. If we only had more men and women like you, what a better place this world would be.
Since coming to Carswell, I have been drawn more and more to our almighty Lord . Everything we have done has been in His name, so I know we have done the right thing. We didn’t realize at the time we started this back in 1996 that Yahweh ws leading us to do what we did: we just know we felt compelled to do this thing. Now we know that this has been Yahweh’s role for us in His plan. Just as He led me to the people He led me to in Danbury. I refuse to believe Sam, that there is no help for us. We have now done all we can do, so this is the point where we are told in the Bible to stand still and let God do His work. He will do what man cannot do. The day after I mailed the last document I was transferred fom Danbury. The timing alone tells me something.
This probably sounds like wishfulthinking, but I have great faith in God’s godddness, and in His promises to those who stay in faith with Him.
You have fought a valiant fight, and are winning. You are doing it better that Ed and I did, as we should have done the same when we first started. But on the other hand, had we done so and won, we would not have had the impact on so many that we did. We awakened many to the corruption in government, and that is our role. So I guess, no matter the outcome for Ed and me, this is what we are supposed to do.
I pray for you, and I pray for Anita’s peace; I know she is in a good place with Yahweh. I can only imagine the loss of a loved one such as you have endured. I can only come as close as being separated from Ed knowing the ache, nothing like yours.
My prayers to you my friend,
Elaine”
Elaine don’t hold your breath. It hasn’t worked for anyone else and it will not work for you.
PS – Elaine was the lady dentist married to Ed Brown, both who did not show up for their tax trial, were found guilty of tax fraud and failure to file, which subsequently led to the seige at their house for several months.
Do not establish ties to Sam the Sham Kennedy or Winston least you go down the same path.
Posted on Quatloss by “Freedom” attorneys who believe Sam the Scam Kennedy is a fraud –
Fw: Re: Elaine Brown
FYI
——– Original Message ——–
Subject: Re: Elaine Brown
Date: Tue, 5 Aug 2008 19:26:52 -0700
From: lawDr1
To: Larry Becraft
CC: Trinity Farms , Tommy Cryer
, John Kotmair ,
mrchaos007@…, Royce , Jon Roland
, TheAmericanRepublic@yahoogroups.com
References:
To whom it may concern,
I am writing at the request of my friend and colleague Larry Becraft.
I have been practicing law for 10 years +- and I have never before
heard of any such thing as “indictments” being “negotiable
instruments” so, this discussion is a new twist on an otherwise
ignorant and foolish concept.
I once had a client who submitted a “redemption” of his “straw man” to
the IRS in response to an IRS summons. I thought that was about the
most ignorant thing I had ever heard of. He was an architect, so I
always wondered how he was tricked into believing such an obviously
idiotic idea.
Anyway, the terms are pretty self explanatory. A negotiable instrument
would have to be “negotiable” for starters, to qualify under the
moniker. Since and indictment has no value to anyone, not even the
court or any agency of the government, it cannot be negotiated in the
stream of commerce because nobody wants one. It has no commercial
value and therefore cannot be a negotiable instrument. One needn’t be
a rocket scientist or legal scholar to see the foolishness for what it
is.
The simple rule of thumb is: Who would invest in such a thing? Why? If
the answer to those two questions is nobody and no reason, then it
can’t be a negotiable instrument. Ergo, government records (birth
certificates, etc. etc. and indictments, and a whole host of records
at the county and state archives, HAVE NO COMMERCIAL VALUE, because
they cannot be redeemed for anything of value and they don’t represent
any form of debt or promise to pay by anyone. So, if you can’t redeem
it for cash and it doesn’t pay interest or a dividend, chances are
very good that it is NOT a negotiable instrument.
Further, in this country, we have wonderful libraries. Anyone who is
at all interested can research the subject on their own. It won’t take
more than 1 hour’s research to determine for yourself whether or not
an indictment could possibly have any commercial value.
If you are too lazy to go the library on your own, then just remember:
Those who will not read have no advantage over those who cannot read.
If you are inclined to believe such tripe and also too lazy to do your
own research, then you probably deserve to lose your life savings and
go to jail in the process. I for one will not weep for you, although I
will pity your family.
Semper Fidelis que Libertas, Veritas, et Justicia,
Peter Gibbons
Attorney & Solicitor at Law
Suite E
1805 North Carson Street
Carson City, NV 89701-1216
___________________________
On Aug 5, 2008, at 5:21 AM, Larry Becraft wrote:
> John,
>
> I will attempt to do so. But first, I must state that there are lots
> of “legal arguments” that are invented out of whole cloth that are
> promoted to the gullible in the movement. I canot say that I have
> investigated every point of this alleged “legal argument”, but that
> is because I can only dwell on insanity for a minimal length of time
> before I begin to get sick.
>
> The below legal argument, as best I can tell, is a “spin-off” of the
> theories of Roger Elvick, a certified thief whose every effort was
> to develop “legal arguments” that justified stealing. I have talked
> with family members of Elvick followers who were in jail for trying
> to steal cars with Elvick drafts. The below theory appears to be
> based on Elvick’s wacko contention that indictments and other
> similar criminal charges are negotiable instruments. The first
> characteristic of a negotiable instrument is that they contain a
> promise to pay and they must be signed by the indebted party.
> Lawyers know, contrary to the below stupidity, that indictments are
> not negotiable instruments, even tho there are plenty of Elvick
> followers who are otherwise deluded. These people know nothing about
> negotiable instruments, even tho they claim to have studied the UCC.
> (I also presume that these people think birth certificates are also
> negotiable instruments, which they are not). There is no conspiracy
> of lawyers preventing the public from knowing about this process,
> which is purely the invention of Elvick followers.
>
> But from this utterly false initial contention, more false legal
> theory is piled on top. These people assume that these indictments,
> being negotiable instruments, are sold by, I guess, clerks of
> courts. Let me state it as bluntly as I can: INDICTMENTS ARE NOT
> NEGOTIABLE INSTRUMENTS, NOR DO THE HAVE ANY COMMERCIAL VALUE!!!!
> They are not sold to anybody, altho I fully understand that there
> are crazy legal arguments, believed by the delusional, otherwise.
>
> I address some of these arguments here:
>
> http://home.hiwaay.net/%7Ebecraft/BoEIndictments.html
>
> http://home.hiwaay.net/%7Ebecraft/AcceptForValue.html
>
> http://home.hiwaay.net/%7Ebecraft/Redemption.htm
>
> http://home.hiwaay.net/~becraft/NewRedemption.html
>
> Let me make a great deal for you, John: I have lots of indictments
> on my harddrive and in files. I will sell them to you for half of
> what clerks get!!! You can make lots of money by re-selling these
> indictments!! Become a millionaire!!!!
>
> I hope that some of the other recipients of this e-mail will offer
> their thoughts about this insanity. Is it any wonder that the rest
> of America has correctly characterized this movement as a bunch of
> nuts, crazies, fruitcakes and morons?
>
> Larry
>
>
> Trinity Farms wrote:
>
>> Would anyone in the group care to respond in a professional manner
>> to these comments? Thank you
>>
>> Larry,
>>
>> Please re-read that letter. All she says she has not received
>> payment yet. BUT, I bet they did ledger all the bonds they wrote on
>> the case didn’t they? And when they do their Federal Assessment
>> they get to borrow against those bonds at the initiation of the
>> bonds, didn’t they?
>>
>> You never were honest or accurate when you admitted by silence of
>> the existence of the CUSP bonds.
>> Larry, If they can bond us, then we must have the power to bond
>> also. We the flesh and blood are the credit, the fictions are the
>> debtors.
>>
>> One of the dirty little secret is, they could never give a power to
>> themselves we all didn’t already have! The clerk never said she did
>> anything illegal, it just was not accurate yet, just the clerk had
>> not received the Original Issue Payment yet. A bonded promissory
>> note will do nicely!
>>
>> Let’s face it, the USDC is a criminal organization and you are one
>> of the King’s men. They cannot even tell the Browns what law makes
>> them liable to pay a tax. Who or what is
>> insane????????????????????????????????????????????
>>
>> How much longer do you think this shell game you attorneys have
>> been running will last???
>>
>> I think the house of cards is already on the way down. Those courts
>> are just windows to the bank. Phoneys in robes, just keepiing the
>> slaves in line. You should be very proud of the fiction you have
>> attached yourself to. Incredibly unethical, can’t even state what
>> law they violated! In the recent four months I have seen courts and
>> attorney’s do more more ILLEGAL and blatantly unethical things
>> ever. It is amazing how they all think that we are crazy cause we
>> see how they violate the law they pretend to uphold.
>>
>> Larry, one thing is for sure, You are not a very good reader! Go
>> read that letter a few more times and see how it is not what you
>> claim it was!
>>
>> TRUTH IS RISING, and the purveyor’s of the falsehoods will soon
>> experience their fallen tower. You can’t close the doors when the
>> wall’s cave in!
>>
>> Yours Truly
>>
>> Mrchaos007!
>>
>> Larry Becraft wrote:
>>
>>> Lots of people have been asserting some insanity regarding 1099-
>>> OIDs. Elaine Brown sent one to a fed court clerk, and attached
>>> below is a note from John Kotmair that has a copy of that clerk’s
>>> reply. This insanity promoted by the Kennedy crowd, which I have
>>> tried to stop, needs to be stopped before people get into more
>>> trouble.
>>>
>>> Larry
>>
>>
>> John:
>> Attached is a letter from the clerk of the Federal District
>> Court of New Hampshire informing her that the claims of “Dr.”
>> Kennedy and his fiends are fraudulent. It would behoove you to
>> inform your e-mailing list of this fact.
>>
>> John Kotmair
>>
>>
>> Kennedy links:
>>
>> http://loveforlife.com.au/node/3694#comment-522
>>
>> Toward bottom of page:
>>
>> SCAMMING THE VICTIMIZED
>>
>> My wife has been part of the disillusioned few who have fallen prey
>> to the Sam Kennedy scam. She has been kicked out of her home, lost
>> custody of her kids, gone to jail and been convicted of a felony,
>> lost her career as a pre-school teacher after months of filling
>> frivilous documents provided by these perpetuators (in exchange for
>> strings of fees of course) and crazy enough she still follow these
>> group of scam artist religiously.
>>
>> There also is one keith livingway with a cult-like group of
>> followers working with this con-artist and their peers. they run an
>> anti-government group called sovereigns without subjects siphoning
>> their members of strings of cash for seminars and worth not as they
>> all loss everything they ever worked for.
>>
>> I am in the process of ensuring that all these group of home
>> wrecking scam artist rightfully end up behind bars (where they
>> usually lead most of their dumb followers into)
>>
>> http://loveforlife.com.au/node/3694#comment-522
>>
>> Mr. Kennedy is not a Doctor
>>
>> I understand Mr. Kennedy is not a medical doctor. He will not
>> discuss, either in private or on the radio, his medical education,
>> where he graducated from medical school, or where he is or was
>> licensed to practice medicine. If he lies about being a doctor, do
>> you think he is telling you the truth on commerce. (He may have a
>> Ph.D. in scamming idiots.)
>>
>> Mr. Kennedy is not an attorney, has never opened a law book and
>> probably does not know what one looks like.
>>
>> There is a Dr. Miller, either in Kansas or Nebraska, who is a
>> dentist, who recently tried to use Sam’s BS on a federal
>> magistrate. It lasted about 2 minutes before Dr. Miller was found
>> in contempt, place in handcuffs, removed from the court room, and
>> placed in the federal Burera of Prisions. Dr. Miller is still in
>> prision.
>>
>> Try Sam’s BS, you will lose everything you have, you will go to
>> prison, at which time you and Dr. Miller can have adjoining cells;
>> you can discuss how Sam ripped you off, but by then it will be a
>> little late.
>>
>> “A fool and his money are soon parted.”
>>
>> Sam Kennedy: Sun, 07/20/2008 – 09:38 Anonymous
>>
>> I have run a search on Sam Kennedy and can find nothing on this
>> guy. It is like he is a ghost. Sure he has some seminars, but there
>> is nothing on where this guy physically lives, etc. Is “Sam
>> Kennedy” an alias?
>>
>> If he is or was a licensed doctor, what medical school did he
>> graduate from and what state is he licensed in?
>>
>> Other than his claims on the radio, which can not be verified, does
>> any one have a case, cause number, court, etc., where any of this
>> has worked?
>>
>> I have heard that a number of people have used his process and
>> found themselves in jail, some for several years.
>>
>> I also do not understand the security measures he now has in place
>> at his seminars, in which you send in a secret application, you
>> have to provide some type of affidavit, and then it is held at a
>> secret location. This sounds “fisher” then an agency of the federal
>> government.
>>
>> Also, I have heard that he works for the IRS, which contracts with
>> him to have people in the Tax Honesty use his methods so that they
>> may be identified easier and prosecuted. This is a bit scary.
>>
>> I need some guidance whether to learn his methods, yet I can find
>> nothing solid about him or VERIFIABLE results from the use of his
>> methods.
>>
>> Any help appreciated. (be objective, do not recommend his radio
>> show, I have done that and he will not present verifiable evidence.
>> I further understand his calls are screened anyone wanting proof is
>> not allowed on the air.)
>>
>> Sam Kennedy, 1099 OID, Elaine Brown: Mon, 07/21/2008 – 07:04
>> Anonymous
>>
>> By the way, if you still remember Elaine Brown, the lady dentist
>> who is married to Ed Brown, both who are in federal prision for
>> failing to file income tax returns, she appears to be using Mr.
>> Kennedy’s 1099-OID approach to pay off some court costs. The link
>> listed below is from the Clerk of the Federal Court – you can read
>> the letter but I do not think the federal clerk is impressed a bit
>> by this approach. In fact, if I understand correctly, she could and
>> may get another 5 years in prision and at least a $10,000 fine.
>> This seems to be a good “test” if Mr. Kennedy’s OID process works.
>> Lets see if someone can produce any verifiable evidence that the
>> feds run away from this issue with Elaine Brown. I thnik she has
>> gotten some very bad advice and may never see the light of day again.
>>
>> Sam Kenney to Elaine Brown: Mon, 07/28/2008 – 03:39 Anonymous
>>
>> Someone heard Sam say the reason Sam’s OID method is not working
>> for Ealine is that Elaine made reference to “1099-OID”, which is in
>> all CAPS, and therefore a fiction. Everyone know how stupid that
>> is. He says had she used “1099-oid” (no CAPS), the federal clerk
>> and judge would already resigned, the Director of Prisons would
>> immediately released her fearing the reprisials of holding a
>> “sovern” person, the New York Times would have had a full page
>> editorial exposing the wrongful holding of Elaine, and she would be
>> the democratic canidate for the presidency of the United States.
>> That Sam, is he not some kind of guy? If only Elaine would listen
>> to all of Sam’s radios shows.
>>
>> Sam Kennedy
>>
>> I have run a search on Sam Kennedy and can find nothing on this
>> guy. It is like he is a ghost. Sure he has some seminars, but there
>> is nothing on where this guy physically lives, etc. Is “Sam
>> Kennedy” an alias?
>>
>> If he is or was a licensed doctor, what medical school did he
>> graduate from and what state is he licened in?
>>
>> Other than his claims on the radio, which can not be verified, does
>> any one have a case, cause number, court, etc., where any of this
>> has worked?
>>
>> I have heard that a number of people have used his process and
>> found themselves in jail, some for several years.
>>
>> I also do not understand the security measures he now has in place
>> at his seminars, in which you send in a secret application, you
>> have to provide some type of affidavit, and then it is held at a
>> secret location. This sounds “fisher” then an agency of the federal
>> government.
>>
>> Also, I have heard that he works for the IRS, which contracts with
>> him to have people in the Tax Honesty use his methods so that they
>> may be identified easier and prosecuted. This is a bit scary.
>>
>> I need some guidance whether to learn his methods, yet I can find
>> nothing solid about him or VERIFABLE results from the use of his
>> methods.
>>
>> Any help appreciated. (be objective, do not recommend his radio
>> show, I have done that and he will not present verifiable evidence.
>> I further understand his calls are screened anyone wanting proof is
>> not allowed on the air.)
—
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512/299-5001 http://www.constitution.org jon.roland@…
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Fw: Re: Elaine Brown
… Subject: Re: Elaine Brown Date: Tue, 05 Aug 2008 22:02:47 -0500 From: Jon Roland Reply-To: jon.roland@… … Jon Roland
jon_roland
Aug 5, 2008
10:40 pm
Fw: Re: Elaine Brown
FYI … Subject: Re: Elaine Brown Date: Tue, 5 Aug 2008 19:26:52 -0700 From: lawDr1 To: Larry Becraft CC: Trinity…
for all those of you who are wondering about Sam Kennedy’s bio… First, his real name is Glen Unger and his doctorate is in dentistry. I believe he is licensed in the state of Massachusetts. Other than that, I don’t know too much about the guy or if his materials work or not.
No dentist Glen Unger in Massachusetts but there is one in Rensselaer, New York, which is very close to Albany NY. Albany is where a number of people have seen him before. If you have the right name, that is where he probably lives.
Question to Ron – from where did you acquire his name?
I got his name from the guy who runs Truth Radio, a Richard Palmquist I believe. You might check for a Richard Glen Unger for a dental license in Mass. or NY.
From the New York Office of Professions
11/16/2008
Name : UNGER GLENN R
Address : RENSSELAER NY
Profession : DENTISTRY
License No: 032245
Date of Licensure : 07/16/76
Additional Qualification :
Status : REGISTERED
Registered through last day of : 06/10
No office address provided.
Does anyone know how to get the book that “sam kennedy” wrote? Does anyone know how to contact him or know anyone who has?
I have a couple comments and questions for the legal eagles posting here:
Can you explain what the BAR stand for is to myself and the folks here.
How does the 14th amendment of the US constitution guide our rights and actions.
Are most or all actions in courts contractual proceedings.
What are the allowed restrictions for traveling in America.
Most states require a birth certificate to get a “drivers” license, how can I legally say when I was born?
Why do I need an Attorney at/of law to “represent” me when I am already presenting myself to the court?
This this kind of a funny term for your “profession” “Law Practice”.
Is there a difference in terms statute and law?
I will take a break and wait for a response, there will be more requests later (if this is not a dead blog). I wait to be enlightened by any.
The “bar” is the court. In its strictest sense, it is the court in session will all its judges sitting.
Law is made up of statutes, cases, regulations, etc. Statutes are passed by the legislation, cases are decided by the judiciary (court) which interprepates the statutes and exising case law. If the legislation does not like the law in a certain area, it passes a statute which overrides current law. The court may overrule a statute if it is found to be unconsititutional. A court may rule in an area on its own if it finds there is no applicable law (referred by many to be “common law”).
Now go spend some time in the law library.
Sam Kennedys methods and legal practice may come into question but that does not mean he is not on to something. after 5 years of research of law and seen this in action in court personally i understand one thing, greed if your motives are greed you are going to jail, and one more thing James respectfully, How much do you and other lawyers stand to lose ? Like you said read the law and you will find the answers Hey one more thing just check out of the website Ron Paul , James guess what ? I have beaten three attorneys already with a high school education , I know the law NOT PROCEDURE
Mr. Gray –
You or Sam Kennedy have never beaten anyone. NO ONE. As with every brain dead follower of Kennedy, post the case cite and court. Dare you. You will not do it because you can not since it has never happened. You said you have seen Sam the Sham Kennedy win a case, post the cite and court. Again, you will not do it because it does NOT exist.
Attorneys are not scared of pro se litigants and certainly not of you. Give me the names of those three attorneys you beat. If you won these great victories, let others know. You will not because it did not happen. You and Kennedy will never put ONE attorney out of business. It is Kennedy who is the gready snake oil salesman who can not produce one patient who has been cured. This is someone you will ignore because you are in denial. You need to believe in someone. Problem childhood? Is Kennedy your father image or role model?
After Sam Kenney’s “research” of the law for 5 years he has nothing. NOTHING. His methods change every six months after a number of his followers are in jail or receive severe penalties from the IRS; what he preaches today will be different tomorrow. Has been for years. He has NEVER provided a single cite to a winning case. What is it you don’t get. Elaine Brown (remember her), tried to use his methods, didn’t work and she begged him for help. His response – silence. He claims he can get folks out of prision but not poor Elaine. Guess his crap works for everyone but for the Browns, Laken Rose, Snipes, etc.
You do not even carefully listen to Kennedy. He tells you his shows and teaching are for “educational and entertainment purposes only”. Idiot, listen to the disclaimers and what he is telling you. Next time you or one of your family members needs heart surgery go to a doctor who tells you his/her medical procedures, treatment and advice is for “entertainment purposes”.
You supporters of Kennedy need to preach this to his few converts at his seminars not on the web. You will never have any credibility because you will never be able to produce a verifable victory. Stick that in your pipe and smoke it.
As to Ron Paul, it is an insult to put Sam Kennedy (which is an alisis) in the same sentence with Congressman Paul. Kennedy is such a piece of crap and coward he will not use his real name. Your lack of intelligence and knowledge on this subject is striking.
Sam Jr,
I couldn’t help but notice you did not answer all of
RobertofSC Questions. Did I miss something?
I am new to this site!
I am just a student and this is very interesting stuff!
Can I ask questions here that you will honestly answer.
“How does the 14th amendment of the US constitution guide our rights and actions.
Are most or all actions in courts contractual proceedings.
What are the allowed restrictions for traveling in America.
Most states require a birth certificate to get a “drivers” license, how can I legally say when I was born?
Why do I need an Attorney at/of law to “represent” me when I am already presenting myself to the court?
This this kind of a funny term for your “profession” “Law Practice”.
Is there a difference in terms statute and law?”
Thanks JJ
I did not answer all your questions for it would be a waste of time.
First, you ask again is there a difference in terms statute and law. If you read my previous response, I wrote a paragraph which you did not read. Obviously you are not that interested.
Second, there is no logical connection between your questions. Further your questions are so general that one could write a book on each question.
Perhaps you could do your own research and post it here. I somewhat suspect you will not spend the time, you would rather have someone else do so.
To all my brain dead followers who know not better:
Judging by my decliningg bank account I need to hold another seminar in the $900 range. This new cutting edge seminar is the “CDE” Method of paying off your debt with monoply money. You heard correct. Yes it came to me in a dream from God in which it was revealed that all the gold that was taken from us patriots in 1933 is secretly subject to the claims of monoply money. This is absolutely the lastest in Patriot technology which everyone needs to consider.
If you do your research you will note the game came out in about 1933. If you count the number of games sold times the amount of money in each game, it just happens to total the amount of gold in Fort Knots. When the value of gold goes up, Parker Brothers will make enough games to match the fair market value of our gold supply. Your oppresive Satanic corporate government and Parker Brothers thought we would never figure this could, but it is clearly before those of us who want to see and are strong enough to see the truth. If you do not see this amazing vision, you need to listen to my tapes on 11/5/08, 12/1/07, and 5/1/08. The truth is disclosed therein. Keep listening and studying until you see the “word”.
For those of you who are not able to get your hands on one of these games, I have a few left which I will sell for $10,000 a piece, but only to those members who attend my next seminar. This is a must seminar to all freedom loving patriots who love the land and desire monoply money to pay your debts and clams, including those of the corporation IRS which does not exist. If you wish to attend this seminar, and only a crazy person would, I mean would not, you will need to send an application to storemonoplymoneytoAmerica@coldmail.com. We will accept cash or a money order with payee line blank. (We do this so we are not within the Federal Reserve System – see my tape of 4/28/2005) Do not send monoply money for you must do your research so that you may make a proper Monoply Money Presentation Payment of the Claim Presentation and a Bonded Promisory Monoply Secured UCC-1 Indemified Offset Debenture (don’t aske me what this means, God has not given me the answer yet; I working hard on that and expect it in a week or so) Please, small FRN and not in sequencial order. You must state your name, address, social security number, provide copy copies of your credit cards, attach deed to your home and indorsed to me, sign an agreement that any advice I give you was unsolicited and for entertainment and amusement purposes only, prove you are not a G-Man, and that you really don’t believe this BS, rather you have done your own research and believe monoply money is secured by the gold at Fort Knots. If you do all this, you are a man or woman of the land patriot.
Naturally I can not give you a warranty that this technology will work because it is so powerful that if you are not qualified and knowlegabe in the use of it, you could hurt yourself. Remember most harm is self-inflicted. And since I have not used any of this crap, and have serious reservations it will work, I know it has since someone told me it had. Sorry I can not give that information out for if the IRS knew who it was and how the glorious victory was won, the IRS would change its technology to block efforts of you patriots.
If you are not guliable enough to believe this BS after the seminar, I am too busy to assist you but I have some mentors who I have taught this technology to. If you want to be a mentor, I will have a Monopoly Mentor Seminar in the Cayman Islands. The price of this seminar is a mere $15,000 but once you get your network set up, you only need to mentor one person to make your money back. (Try to do it outside the country so the Feds don’t have jurisdiction over you). I have donated this technology to a non-profit so send your federal reserve notes to Cayman-Island-Retirement-Fund-for-Kennedy. Do not ask these people any questions for they know nothing about this wonderful technology; rather they are in charge of moving funds from shell company to shell company. And please remember, anyone who signs with a mentor does not have a contract with me. I can not guarantee a mentor’s work; all I know about the mentor was he paid $15,000 to attend a seminar. Prehaps in the future we will take roll of which mentors were present at the seminar; that s on the drawing board.
Remember, if you are a god fearing person of the land, a patriot who does not wish to pay tax dollars to defent this country from foreign threats, does not desire any highways, and wants to learn more on how to get your hand into someone else’s pocket book, listen to me on the Scam-a-tron Radio Network.
By Roger the Dodger Rabbit on behalf of Sam Kennedy
PS – he has forgoten all his misguided studends who missued this powerful technology and are now in jail. He has promised to provide his real name, address, phone number to you. Upon your release from prision, send your information to restorejailbirdstoprision@Levenworth.org. Someone will contact you.
Whoever wrote that last gem… niiiice! However, I have intermediate and advanced accounting experience and, although I have no idea who Sam Kennedy is, I can tell you that 1099 oid is a legitimate practice, if the proper accounting is followed. This is not for people who are looking for a method to evade, provoke, or otherwise “find” some free money. When you are looking at your mortgage, for instance, ask your loan servicer to provide you with the proper accounting for the account. This should include the 1099 oid statement, FR 2046 balance sheet ( OMB forms 2046, 2049, and 2099), these are disclosable @ Title 5 USC, S-3/A registration statement, 424-B5 prospectus, and RC-S and RC-B call schedules. These ledgers will show that you are the creditor on the banks liability side of the ledger, thus an asset to you… period. The note is your asset. Now on the banks asset side of the ledger, you are the debtor. This is all under GAAP ( Generally Accepted Accounting Practices) and is recognized by FASB. This will have your bank asking you why you want these. They ledgered your note as abandoned property and claimed it on their 1099 oid. I’ve done my homework. But this is NOT the kind of “accounting” you guys have been discussing…. is it. This is grounds for a counterclaim… I’ve done it. Reduced my note amount to “fair net present value”… no questions asked. Do not attempt to send any document to a Government agency that you, yourself, have not had checked by a qualified person. You will regret it. It sounds like Mr. Kennedy is not a qualified person, even to clean your teeth ( since he has no office location to do so).
Ab initio, veritas, ad infinitum Jim
What does that mean, “I have intermediate and advanced accounting experience…?” There is absolutely NOTHING legitimate about any of this. An OID is simply an original issue discount, referring to the present value of a future payment. (You buy a savings bond for less than the face value, but have to wait for it to “mature.”) The difference between the price you paid and the mature value at surrender is interest, on which you pay taxes. That’s it.
Yes, there are people who have used this technique and been “paid” by the IRS. They file a fraudulent tax return using an imaginary strawman account and the computer doesn’t catch it right away. They get a check and they post a picture of the check on the internet as proof that it works. But, someone could rob a liquor store and take a picture of the loot to prove that it “works.” That doesn’t make it legal.
The OID scam is the favorite scam this year, and the Treasury Department is pursuing these cases with zeal. And they win. EVERY TIME. These arguments all require you to focus on tiny, almost inconsequential passages in the code, and then completely ignore the big parts. Like, “Gross income includes all income from whatever source…” Or, ignoring the fact that we are a common law society so once an issue has been adjudicated, it is settled unless overturned by a higher court. Since all of these arguments have been summarily dismissed by federal courts at all levels, there really is nothing here except an interesting brain teaser that, if used, will ultimately result in jail time.
You may not agree with the law, but that doesn’t change what the law is. If you believe in these methods, and you also believe in alien abductions and that the Bilderberg conference is a secret meeting of the “real” rulers of the world, (i.e. illuminati), then by all means, continue believing. If, on the other hand, you have a shred of common sense, talk to a tax attorney or a CPA.
John hit the nail on the head. Well put.
Hey John,
I can see that you did not read the comment as it was intended. Therefore, let me be precise as to the “practice” of filing OID’s as a form of tax return. I said very clearly in my post… these filings are not for people who are trying to receive something for nothing. They do work… sporadically, for some people who sneak them through. However, you are right, these will, undoubtedly, get you into some sort of q & a with someone from Treasury. I was pointing out that the OID is a commonly used format by banks and other financial institutions and that THEY are using these to your detriment… in some cases. Why would a bank be able to file an abandoned property filing on your promissory note? Did anyone from the bank disclose this information to you when you signed your mortgage note, and then tell you that they were going “table-top” your note to make three times the money… all in one fell swoop? Did anyone from the bank cut you a check for your profit on the transaction? Did they fill you in on the “off balance” accounting that they conduct on your behalf? The OID used in this pervasive practice is being filed on YOUR PROMISSORY NOTE, which is your property. If you can show me where I gave them the authority to pull this stunt… I’ll buy you lunch at the burger joint of your choosing. Yet, they do it every day… all day, and don’t disclose this little trick to anyone, except the Fed. And they bless this bull***t. Do some due diligence on your own note and see what the CFO of your “bank” does. My personal experience is that they will evade, hang up, tell you that you’re off balance, and otherwise do anything that will get you off task. Make the calls, do the actual work, then mail me back and let me know your personal outcome. I know the results before you start.
And…. I suggest you read invisible contracts by Mercier (probably the foremost authority on contracts), it should enlighten you… unless you don’t believe in aliens, the Illuminati, and other such rhetoric. It’s all about what you agree to, and what you terminate. I’d recommend about a year or so in intense study of foundational LAW… not statutory jibberish.
Jim
What does “… file an abandoned property filing on your promissory note”. Never heard of that. Can you provide a link to the actual document which is an abandoned property filing.
You are not getting confused with discharge of indebtedness income which sometimes occurs when a mortgagor abandons their property and the bank forcloses on the property and does not seek to go after the mortgagor.
If you do not have access to the actual document, there is no sense wasting any more time on the subject.
Hey Sam Jr.,
Sorry about the delay… out of town and needed it. The abandoned property doc. I am referring to is the trusty ol’ 1099 A form, readily available at your nearest tax distribution center. The bank is supposed to wait three years before filing this on your behalf, however, since nobody out there is registering their property (promissory note) the banks have carte blanche to your “abandoned” property. Here’s a challenge… see if you can obtain the previous documents from your bank, then ask them for the 1099 A as it relates to your account #. I promise you that there was one filed, or, if it’s been less than 3 yrs., there is a chance it is still in the banks’ ready doc. files. Either way, if you would just take the time to file the promissory note on a UCC-3 and attach it to your UCC-1 in its’ specific form, you are the registered claimant for said note and, therefore, if ANYONE would attempt to re-sell that note as a security…. it is illegal and a fraud on its’ face. That is the what the “A” stands for in 1099 A… abandoned property… cute little trick, ‘eh?
Jim
Jim – I am no idea what in the world you are talking about.
First, if you have property respossessed or you abandon it and to which the bank discharges any outstanding balance on your debt (promissory note) to the bank or mortgage company, that is a taxable transaction. The difference is the portion of the promissory note you owned the bank which was foregiven less your adjusted basis in the property. I suggest you read the instructions to form 1099A. There is a lot of literature on this subject.
Second, I know of nothing magical about three years. In many states the statute of limitations to enforce a contract (promissory note) is four years and if the bank or mortgage company fails to file a lawsuit or you fail to start making payments again within the statutory period, the bank or mortgage company can no longer enforce the promissory note (make you pay). At such time since no legal obligation exists, any outstanding balance on your promissory note to the bank (your promise to pay) is taxable income. In essence, you borrowed money and did not pay it all back, and the amount you did not pay back is taxable income. Got it?
Third, a UCC-1 is public notice of a security interest in property. A UCC-3 is a modification of the UCC-1 public notice. Typically a UCC is only for personal property, not for real property (real estate). Only the person who has the security interest in the asset may file the UCC-1 or UCC-3. If you purchased real estate and the bank financed it, the security is the real estate, and normally the bank has a security interest in the real estate (could be by deed of trust, vendor’s lien, secuity agreement). Now pay carefull attention – YOU HAVE NO LEGAL RIGHT TO FILE A UCC-1 ON THE PROMISSORY NOTE. That is an asset owned by the bank, it is your obligation not your asset. If you choose to file a UCC-1, you are in violation of the law for a number of counts, including fraud. The only thing you have done is create confusion as to whether or not you have a security interest in the promissory note, which in some states may have criminal sanctions. The promissory note remains inforceable against you and, assuming you executed a security agreement, deed of trust, vendor’s lient on the asset at time of financing, the bank can foreclose on the asset if you fail to timely make payments.
4. If the bank 1 wants to sell your promissory note to Bank 2, that typicall is fine. The promissory note is a receivable (asset) and it may be sold. It is no difference than selling a machine. You are still liably on the obligation (promissory Note), you just own bank 2 instead of bank 1 on the obligations.
There are no cuite tricks. Anything to the contrary is Alice chasing the white rabbit.
I have a friend who is being brain washed by his family to file a 1099 OID, UCC asignment,CID liquidation process, and the BIC process papers. I believe his Dad is a mentor with Sam Kennedy and I am afraid this person is going to go to jail because his Dad is forcing him to do these things. He tells his son that he knows what’s best for him! YIKES!!! Please give me proof that he will go to jail for filing these goofy papers. I really want to save this kid from ruining his life. Help!!
Takes about 5 seconds to google (“1099 oil scam”). Following link is to IRS web site, the info on “Form 1099-OID Fraud” is dated 10/10/2008. You can draw you own conclusion if you can go to jail for tax fraud.
http://www.irs.gov/newsroom/article/0,,id=98129,00.html
in previous post, “oil” should be “oid”
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